Inspired by religion talk
If we just take that one thing Foxpox mentioned: "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply" Genesis (1:28). I do not see any problem with it nowadays. Lesbians and gays can do that too thanks to development of medicine and technology. So in my interpretation of this part of Bible they are all welcome to live together happily ever after.
I actually think in very broad perspective that lesbians and gays should not be mentioned neither at religion lessons nor ethics. I would be happy if they didn´t need to be mentioned as a separate cathegory which needs to be discussed under moral issues for example. We usually do not refer to nongays as to heterosexuals. We refer to them as people, or just boys or girls, women and men. So why is it so important to mention that someone is gay?
I think there are many other more important things to be taken into consideration...
Most religions, maybe all (i havn't checked) give some guidelines to how we should live our life. It's not just a question of helping to understand world and life. You could of course choose to agree or disagree with those views, and there are always questions of interpretations. I for instance disagree with a interpretation of the bible which says that being lesbian or gay is wrong. But i also disagree that these things should not be discussed in religion or ethics. Then guidelines like "Treat your neighbour as you would like to be treated" or "Thou shall not kill" which also are guidelines couldn't be discussed either. And then it really wouldn't be much to discuss left.
Yes of course gays and lesbians need to be discussed. What I wanted to say is that I whished they had not needed to be discussed in those contexts we discuss them now. I think there should not be a doubt that they have the same human rights as all the "others", that they can get married, that they can have children. It should be natural that people can be of different orientation than of the oposite sex. That´s more or less what I meant.
In Romans (1:26,27) is written
"26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
Easy I can find something like this.
Bible 100% against lesibans, gays, zoophiles etc.
Gays, lesbians etc shout everywhere where they can, "We are gays!" "Proud to be a Lesbian!" They are making a barrier themselves. Probably they are think it's so cool to be a gay! Some kinda opposition to society.
quote: that they can get married, that they can have children.
Only a woman with woman? Or man with man? What if three or four men "love" each other? But how about a man and a sheep? A woman and a dog? Is there difference? Nope. Children ... here on TV was a program about it. A boy from lesbian *family* had to change 8 schools during one year. And stopped to go to school anymore. On TV one huge expert on this thing had told, "In homosexual families a child will never be with a normal mentality, it's a potential client for a psychiatrists". Plus there are plenty of things ... for ex. in lesbian family where they have a boy, one of lesbians ALWAYS must go to WC and use ... how this thing calls ... in the USA feminists use it ... so to pretend that she is a man ... during process. It's really a crime to give a children into lesbian or gay family.
And 95% of lesbians are absolutely normal, they just had problems with men + some of them are victims of aggressive feminist propaganda.
And about terminology. You call normal women as "two-handed women"? No. So why to call normal people like "heterosexuals"? They are normal :-)
And btw when last year I bought a mobile phone and started to fill address book, #3 was my friend-gay. I'm okay with them :-)
If four men want to live together..here they go! They can live together. I prefer four men livin together in peace than one man in a NORMAL family and one of the parents abusing children or neglecting them. The children from lesbian families feel bad not because of the fact that they come from the lesbian family but because of the society judging the family. So I definitely do not agree with the sentence "In homosexual families a child will never be with a normal mentality, it's a potential client for a psychiatrists". For me it´s a bullshit!
At the same time I do not agree with the feminists who are against men. Feminism shouldnt be fight against some other group and contribution to more differences than there are now. Feminism should be a way how to find a way to equality, understanding and cooperation.
About your example "two-handed women": Exactly - for me being lesbian is absolutely same thing as being two handed. Tell me why the fact that someone is a lesbian is important in daily life? Is for anybody important to know that I like boys with blue eyes (just an example)? I do not think so.
Yes, "society judging the family". Society is very cruel. Children from sodomite's families always will subjects of fun, harassment, oppression, aggression etc. Hell instead of happy chilhood.
Is there any variant to solve the problem? In theory - to make ghetto for sodomite's families with schools .... no, the word "ghetto" is not good :-) "enclave" is better. No, there is not any real decision for this problem.
And telling about "parents abusing children" it's typical old feminist trick!
He-he my eyes are dark blue! And ... I don't care about ALL lesbians.
For feminists enemy #1 is a man (white normal man).
for me this discussions is very simple, all people have the right to be whatever or whoever they are as long they dont abuse and harm others around them. it has no importance if one is gay or hetero, one should live like needed, but in the moment they start to harrass someone for whatever reason then, gettin someone to bed or just being annoyin, freedom stops, cause thats violating someone elses freedom.
what bible says is in this matter not important, as all religions state that whatever you do, if you really love God, he forgives/accepts you however you decide to live your life.
the confrontation should stop from all sides, then its easier to find a compromise and a way how christianity and such questions as gays and lesbians can live peacefully together.
I can't believe Foxpoxes comments on this blog. It felt as if I was sitting in a weird time-machine with my computer in front of me, and heading towards the Middle Ages.
1. Bible is just an ordinary book written by human beings, not a god or any supernatural beings. In this way it should not have any higher authority than any other book on human history or philosophy or ethics. So no one can clearly claim any non-sense like god is against homosexuals. It's a horrible misinterpretation! People who put down the thoughts in Bible were just as fallible and preconceived as many people nowadays. And that means that we should be very careful while reading it, and not follow it blindly. And thus, as with any ordinary book you read, use your brain for "god's sake"!
2. "Experts" - again an invisible authority (almost like a god ;-) that can mean just anything. From people who are curious and are looking for the truth, or more complex knowledge to people who just publish their articles every day without giving a real thought to their job. I could just as well quote experts who claim that children from homosexual families are more self-confident, assertive, out-going, and in a sense happier than their peers from heterosexual families.
3. I think that gays and lesbians have very good reasons to be proud. They are rebelling against human stupidity and intolerance. It's a real shame that unfortunately, in their case, the UN Charter of human rights seems to be just another ordinary book without real emphasis on application. Otherwise they would not need to fight for their right to marry the person they love, because it would be something quite NATURAL!
Kadri and Katka!!! Huge applause from me to you =)
"They are rebelling against human stupidity and intolerance." hehe. Revels! LOL. It's like Billy Idol singing
"With a rebel yell she cried - "more, more, more".
I just cannot understand why you discuss only gays and lesbians? How about zoophiles, necrophiles pedophiles? Are they worse that gays and lesbians? Where's your "tolerance" (sorry for using this "politcorrectness" term)? I knew a girl who lived with her dog. And what? It's okay :-)
Okay, now I'm thinking to join into the most rebel-progressive organization - dutch NVD or American NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association).
_http://216.220.97.17/welcome.htm
:-) Btw what bad in pedophile? Peotr Tchaikovsky was pedophile (I hope it's not a surprise for you?)
If a crowd of clowns is shouting in the street, it's not any sort of rebelling, it's a circus.
About 'experts'. I'll try to find real names.
To Katka. "Bible is just an ordinary book written by human beings". With your "tolerance" tell the same to arabs about their koran, and in the nearest future your head will see your body from a distance.
I don't care about gays and lesbians, I contact with them, one of my sites was awarded with some gays and lesbian agards, here one for example
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9472/gaydayph4.jpg
Foxpox, there is a great mess inside your head, which means that it is very difficult to lead any fruitful and meaninful discussion on the level of clarity and uderstanding that I prefer ususally. Moreover, I share something with gays and lesbians. I am intolerant to stupidity myself. I think this is clear enough even for you, Foxpox.
And imagine, I am living with muslims, and they are far from your prejudiced picture of them. They know very well that I am an atheist, and we get on very well. In addition, I was talking about Bible. Do you remember? I did not mention Quran once. It was you who started with quotation from the "big book". My reply was context-specific (look this up in an other clever book - a thesaurus).
And I was talking about gays and lesbians, because I chose to. I think this should suffice as a reply for you. I don't want you to suffer of cognitive overload.
I have a suggestion for you. Have a walk in the real world from time to time, and don't sit only in front of displays of various kind (TV, PC). Perhaps a little fresh air would have some beneficial impact on your bigot opinions.
Hawk!
Hejsan Foxpox! First of all - Kadri wrote it very clear, all people have right to be whoever and whatever unless they do not violate others rights (including children, animals etc) and abuse. That´s my answer for or your "-philes" names. Regarding Tchajkovskij I do not care if a person who is abusing someone else is world known composer or a person from a house across the street. So far I know in a gay relationship both (or more if you want) partners agree on relationship and all the staff coming with it. In the case of pedophilia only one is side satisfied and the other side is forced into something.
Second of all - more important, if you write more entries like your last one about Arabs and koran which was terrible generalization, I will take the message away from my blog. I appreciate your entries untill they are humiliating, accusing rasistic or whatever in that direction. I guess you have got my point.
Sehr schon, gut gemacht