...I know I enjoyed...

I decided to write this blog to answer Roberts question.  He has been to Brussels and tried and described the night life there. The pubs are open till 6-7 in the morning meaning that alcohol is served untill then and people of course drink as much as they can. Robert´s (I guess more rethorical) question was: Why do people do so? Why do they drink so much that they have headache the next day and they do not remember anything.

Can that be fun not to remember fun?

At the Bridging the Gap conference there was a research about binge drinking presented. During the presentation we all could hear a quotation of a young girl from UK: "If I am drunk and sick I know I enjoyed myself"

As I see it, people are losing connection with their own self.  Not aware of their own feelings. Unable to reflect them. Searching for external sources of happiness which they were just told was happiness.

I know..restrictions, high taxation, age limits etc they work the best in reducing alcohol consumption. But at the same time the reason of consumption is somewhere else. We need to find a way back to ourselves.

Kommentarer
Postat av: Sanja

Does this girl know the meaning of the word "enjoy"?!

2006-12-04 @ 16:17:38
Postat av: kadri

i know very well this kind of girls and boys.. and i feel sad they do not know how to have fun without alcohol.
but i also wanted to say that we cant also expect always people to think our way. some of my friends like to drink alcohol as well, wine or so, not getting drunk, but i could never persuade them to quit drinking. i know what are our aims and our principles, but sometimes i feel we are closing ourselves out of the world and vice versa. lets keep the dialogue.
maybe its a wrong place for this comment, just wanted to get it off my chest..:-)

2006-12-04 @ 18:23:39
Postat av: Jan Tore

This might be a long one, sorry.
I'm reading a book called "Youth, parties and alcohol". It's a result from a survey of danish teenagers and their drinking habits. Denmark having a very "wet" culture might not be representative for all other countries, but it's probably close. The book says much about the party and how this is an arena for alcohol consumption, and also for how the teeangers are being looked at by their peers. (And the people who are not drinking is not coming very good out of that btw since not drinking is closely correlated with not going to any parties which means that you are seen as somewhat imature.)

Throwing up is not an enjoyable experience for anyone, but the survey actually say that throwing up at a party is closely connected with a statement that the party has been great. It might be that it is something that is fun to tell afterward, and something that makes the party rememberable. It's similar to that girls quote about binge drinking.

Unfortunately it's fun to be drunk. Or atleast many people think so. If it wasn't this would be a lot easier. Some people are drinking to cope and relax from the everyday that they might not think is so fun. That's true. And it's also true that expectations are important for how you feel. If you think it will be fun when you're drinking it probably wil be. But even so - the expectations are real, and so is the feeling of enjoyment for the person who are feeling it. It is learnt, but so is most of what we are doing after all. So i don't think we'll get very far by saying that we have to find a way back to something we call "ourselves". It's more a question of showing viable alternatives, and give those alternative a status among youth. And there is our problem. Most places not to drink doesn't give you much off that among other people. This survey shows quite the contrary. The people who are not drinking have fewer friends, less network, goes out seldom to parties and so on. And who wants voluntarily to be that person? (Among organised temperance youth you will probably find other results, but these are youth that are standing more on their own.) So throwing up might give you a higher status among your peers than sitting home alone on saterday evening. And are felt more enjoyable also.

Well. I said this would be long. Are writing an article about it to the IOGT paper here.

2006-12-04 @ 20:02:50
Postat av: Kristina to Jan Tore

I agree with everything you say Jan Tore. And it is very sad. But I also believe that that statement claims that she actually does not know when she is happy and she needs and external proof for that. And maybe she is just happy that she was enjoying although she was not enjoying then but afterwards because she thinks that she belonged somewhere. I have talked to many teachers and psychologists who claim that students can not define their feelings. They can not say when they are glad, what makes them sad, they are surpressin their real feelings and claim smth else just to look good in the eyes of others. And the others do the same because of another people. We are simply lying to each other and to ourselves. Wearing masks. And this can be changed by learning about ourselves from the beginning. Such person does not mind having just few friends but real ones. BUT of course by creating alternatives to "alcofun" is important.

2006-12-05 @ 10:00:45
Postat av: Kristina to Kadri

I have heard another version. That "those" who drink THINK that we are judging them. And they feel guilty when they drink seeing the "we" are not. I have never met any person from temperance movememnt who would not talk to people who drink. Have you?

And yes I do not like that they drink but I do not judge them. And I do not persuade them to stop. I even say that I see their way. I am just honest with them and I say my opinion or show it by not drinking. And it is their fault that they feel uncomfortable because of that.

2006-12-05 @ 10:09:08
Postat av: Jan Tore

Yes, i think you're right that she needs external "proofs". Not neceserily that she is happy, but as you say that she belongs somewhere. Her social identity is important. The party and drinking there is just one part of it. What's happening on fridays when she is discussing with others where to go and what to wear, and on monday when they share stories about the events in the weekend is just as important. (And if you're not a part of that you are getting closed out. It was an article in norwegian papers yesterday about how immigrant youth from muslim countries get problems integrating in norwegian society because of the norwegian drinking culture.)

These are rituals, but arn't for instance Active also full of such rituals even though drinking is not part of it? And are the rituals in Active so different than rituals in drinking situations? I'm just not sure what this "ourselves" is if it isn't learnt, and if it is learnt then how can we say that anyone is really lying to oneselves more than another is? I'm not partuculary happy for this question myselves, but i havn't any good answers to it for my part.

Then i can of course say that drinking is the wrong way to show that you belong or to make up that social identity, but that's more a question of values and would mean that there are things in Active culture that is also better than in the drinking culture besides the non-drinking part. And maybe it is. I think it's important to identify those things. Temperance is probably something you have to experience also.

IOGT Juniors have a project called "Trygg Uppväkst" (Safe upbringing) btw. It is about getting children groups together, preferable from 6th or 7th grade (but it has been done on older youth too.) In those groups they talk about themes such as self esteem, communication, feelings and "mestring" (mastering). It began as a project targeting kids from families with drug problems but was changed to a more general programs because we saw than the same problems that are being found in these more marginal group can we also see in mainstream groups, though not so marked. Growing up is a difficult time regardless of where you coe from, and it's important that children learn to put words to their feelings. I think you would like the project from what you are saying.

2006-12-05 @ 10:57:58
Postat av: kadri

i agree also with jan tore and kristina is telling.

about what i was telling, i know several people who refuse to interact with people who drink or smoke and do judge them. therefore im telling this, it was not personally against anyone here, but it is against some elsewhere.
of course we are also judged as not normal etc, the usual stuff. but also many people have told me they admire us for daring to be the way we want..
and thats really cool to hear the respect.

2006-12-05 @ 11:30:57
Postat av: Kristina

Yeah Jan Tore..I would like it =)
Yeah Kadri.. =) I´ve heard it too =) And I also tell them that there is nothing to admire since it is very natural not to drink and rather egoistic from my side =) I like when my body works, I like when people around me do not feel in danger because of me and I do not like when someone/something tries to trick the others (as alco industry does) so I simply don´t drink.

2006-12-05 @ 18:21:11

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